I know this post is going to tick off a certain gender, but some of these laws have to change. Before we get started let it be known that I believe in paying child support, you are responsible for your kids and there welfare. This is not about paying or trying to get out of paying child support. This is how Court Ordered Child Support is bankrupting some men and women, making them live below the poverty level (they can not get Government Assistance because Child Support can not be deducted from your income), and in some cases forcing them to live in Homeless Shelters or make shift Tent Cities.
The Discussion will address the following Issues:
1. The Laws that need to be Changed
2. How the states Payment Systems are not fair to the payee or payer. (Georgia and Tennessee)
3. How the relationship between parent and child is harmed
4. How the courts really do not care about the children just the payee
5. Double Standards
The Numbers and Facts: As of the date this was written I owe $100,000.00 in back child support. I have been ordered by the court to pay $300.00 a month on 1 case and $667.00 a month on the other case. That is $967.00 a month which is $11604.00 a year. The cases were recently transferred to TN from GA, 2007 Case 1 and 2008 Case 2. This has been a standing order since the last divorce in 1992. With the exception of Case 1, it was $200.00 a month but they told me in court that $200.00 a month was just barley paying the interest; yes you read it right interest. So I up the total to $300.00. I have 6 children, 3 boys 3 girls. First marriage had 4 kids (2 scraping boys, 2 wonderful daughters), second marriage 1 child a beautiful daughter, and 3rd marriage another handsome boy. The last child lives with me, this is important to remember, because he is 13 as of right now and I have had sole custody since he was 5 years old. His mother pays no child support because she can not hold a job and the courts do not seem to care that I do not receive any support. To them he does not even exist. The courts say she is to unable to work so do the best I can. That seems like a Double Standard to me. Do I pitch a fit demand that she be arrested, make her work even if she is unstable and can not. No I just take care of my child!
The Story: I guess the straw that broke the camels back was what happened this week. I know what it takes for me to live and support my son who lives with me. So when the economy slowed down my overtime was cut back. I took a second job on the weekends to make ends meet. Well I got my check on Friday and the State of TN had deducted 50% for Child Support. The Court Ordered amount of $967.00 is deducted in full from my main job. The computer system picked me up as having a job and saw that I owed Child Support. The lady who signed the document never checked to see if I was still working the other job or if I had missed any payments which I have not. She just figured since the computer picked me up they had the right to deduct the full amount or 50%. This is just lazy and unacceptable. I am trying to put food on the table and they can not figure out that the full amount of the court order is being paid. I left her several messages but you got it she has not returned my call.
The Arrears: I know what you are thinking how is he still out on the street owing a $100,000.00 in back Child Support, and how did he get that far behind. Well I will tell you. The Figures below will show $867.00 as the extra $100.00 was not added till 2008.
1. My dad died and it took a 1 year and 6 Months to get his estate squared away, the house had to be re-molded, then my step mom died 2 months after that and her estate had to be handled, Hence why it took almost 2 years. Case #2 was very understanding and we had discussed that this was more important, plus I got to spend a lot of time with our daughter, I keep my daughter in gas and spending money while I was there to try and help Case #2 out. Daughter #1 from Case #1 needed money for college books so I put her and her husband to work and paid them a little over $2,500.00 for about $1,000.00 worth of work but education is important. It paid off because she is now a teacher. Daughter #2 from case #1 needed deposit money for an apartment where she was attending college so I also paid for that. Now please remember my dad had no insurance and this was coming out of our pockets. You will understand later why this was mentioned. 18 months X $967.00 = $17,406.00
2. Since 1993 let us say just for kicks that there is 24 months that I missed for various reasons ranging from being laid off to looking for a new job, and working jobs that did not pay enough I do not think this is right and is a little high but we will say that it is correct. 24 months X $867.00 = $20,808.00
3. While working for the State Of Tennessee I did not make enough to pay the full court ordered amount. At this time this was the only job that I could find that was stable and I did not have to worry about getting laid off. See my last three jobs in Georgia had fizzled out and I was laid off, I relocated to Tennessee and took a job as a Correctional Officer. They took 50% of my gross but that still put me $90.00 a month short. I stayed with the state for 5 years. 60 X $90.00 = 5,400.00
4. While working at the State of Tennessee I had my 2nd of 3 heart attacks. This was a big one; it required that I have a Quad bypass. I had learned my lesson from 1993 and had disability insurance but it only paid half my salary, and Child Support took half of that. I was out of work for a total of 4 months. So that put me $180.00 short for those 4 months. Since these months are already figured in above we just need to add the other $90.00. 4 X $90.00 = $360.00.
5. In 1993 I had my first of 3 heart attacks, compounded with the diagnosis of Graves Disease with TTP (Temporary Thyroid Paralyses) which means with in 5 minutes time I could go from being fine to not being able to move at all. Wound up missing 3 years of work. Now in 1993 I was 33 years old, did not think I needed disability insurance it was a easy way to cut corners. 36 X $867.00 = $31,212.00. That will give us a Grand Total of $75,186.00 the rest is interest.
The Laws that need to be Changed
· Suspension of Drivers License: This is the first step they use if you are not paying. If you happen to be with out a job and looking you need your license. Do not tell me they wait till you are way behind. I know better. When I moved from GA. And started to work for the State of TN. I called and told them and gave them the address of where to send the court orders. Well the state of TN holds back 1 month so you are there 2 months before your first pay check. The State of GA. suspended my DL for non payment of child support, I was demoted from a CO till the State of GA, got there payment from the state of TN then I had to pay a reinstatement fee of $165.00.
· Jail Time: Oh this really works, how can you get out and make a living if you are in jail, how can you see your kids. If you have court ordered visitation they are in contempt because they are not allowing you to visit. If they are going to put you in jail they should be made by law that while in jail your child support is waved and no arrears can accumulate. They put you there. After my Heart Attack in 1994 they locked me up while I was still under doctors orders! They only released me after my dad came up with some cash (not as much as they wanted) and my doctor told them that if anything happened to me that it was on them.
· Payments: (a) If a doctor has determined that you can not work due to an illness or condition you should not have to pay your payments and no arrears will occur. The law should allow you 1 year to try and get your disability, If you are not approved the child support office can then add your miss payments to the arrears. Look at this way, if the couple was still married and living in the same house they would still be minus that income. (b) If you can prove that the only job you can find will not pay the full court ordered amount and they are taking 50% of the net the child support payment should be adjusted to that amount so no arrears can cumulate. This includes 50% of your unemployment check. Make it so that you have to show an attempt to find a better paying job.
· Interest: I have no Idea where this even came from. They have just started this in the last couple of years. Come on the money is not going into a savings account so no interest was lost. If you get into the arrears you will never get out. My rate is the max that the state of GA will allow, the same rate as pawn shop. The highest interest rate we have on our credit cards is 4.9%
How the states Payment Systems are not fair to the payee or payer. (Georgia and Tennessee)
· Case #1 is paid $300.00 a month case #2 is paid $667.00 a month from the state of TN. Now when it gets to GA. It is not paid in the same fashion. Case #2 seems to always get shorted. She is owed the most in arrears so I figure the state of GA wants that balance to stay high so they can charge more interest. Why do I care you ask, well the state of TN is deducting $667.00 from the balance and the state of GA is not so at the end when TN says it is paid and GA says it is not I wind back in court because the States can not get there numbers correct. Case #2 and I have contacted both agencies. TN sends the money to 2 separate accounts, GA tells her they will pay out the funds in any fashion they please. It does not matter what the court order says it is what they want to do. I tried giving them a call and they told me the same thing and suggested that I not press the issue if I did not want a higher interest rate.
How the relationship between parent and child is harmed
· This one is really a no brainer. If a parent has to go to jail, work 2 or more jobs, this puts a strain on the relationship between parents which in turns affects the relationship with the kids. Take away their DL and they can not drive to visit. The sad part about this is that the system is suppose to protect the well being of the child, but it does not it has become a system that is only concerned with money. I missed seeing my kids grow up because of 2 jobs, and stress between me and their mothers. You can not get that time back. Something has to be done!
How the courts really do not care about the children just the payee
· While in court the last time I had all my paper work where I had given the kids money while in GA working on the house and getting the estates settled. I was told even though the total was well over $3,000.00 that they could not take it off the arrears. That only monies paid to the mothers could be counted as Child Support. Hey I give it to the girls to support them in college and stuff but it did not count. Oh well should have seen that coming.
I know they are some dead beat parents out there that no matter what you do they are not going to support their kids. However the majorities of us do and since we will show up for court and do what is ordered we get pushed around. We are the ones paying, do not try and break us to make an example and hey why not be a little nicer while in court a do not treat us like 3rd class citizens, take other children in to consideration, they deserve a little also. I do not regret 1 penny I have gave to the raising of my children, but the system is broken and needs to be fixed.
Wow, I am a female and feel for you. My husband was just served a child support modification and the Georgia courts did not take into effect that he paid his child support on time, he pays for all medical cost, and he has another child w. myself. We can not afford to pay what the courts increased it too and still provide a roof over our sons head, electricity, and food. I do not believe that the courts are fair in Georgia and do believe something needs to be done now. It is honestly like the courts could care less about the needs of another child, heck they do even listen. What can be done?
Jill
Thank you for your comments and I feel for you and your husband. I was told by a lawer in GA. that the Child support system their was way out of hand, he compared it to the IRS as for as they have no one to answer to, I ask if I could fight them in court and he said yes, but if you do they can increases the intrest to pay for the court cost and can drag it out for years. i am still working on trying to get the system fair and to count all the children not just the ones in the court documents. I will keep you updated on what I find out.
Joe
Just so you know the laws are not only screwed up in Georgia. I moved from California to Oregon after my divorce. Oregon collected child support on behalf of California until my daughter turned 21 but I started with $21,000 in arrearages. I finished paying my support and got a dismissal from Oregon in 2005. I moved to Idaho and my exwife moved to Arizona. Last year I got a bill from California indicating I still owed them $8,900 and began garnishing my wages. I went to court and insisted on an audit. The audit comes back I owe $23,000. I am 65 and was going to retire, my exwife and I don’t communicate and they say she is the only one who can modify or stop the payments, and I have only seen my daughter once in the past 15 years.
The Child Support system just about everywhere in the United States is terribly flawed. I’m going through a lot myself, trying to raise three kids alone (and have been for 15 years) without any help from the non-custodial. The non-custodial works ‘under the table’ to avoid paying, has no responsibilities and between three children, I am owed well over 20,000 in back child support.
If you lived in Arkansas, your child support court ordered amount would be so low you’d be living great. For my oldest son, the court order is only $32 a week! Who can raise a child on that? Yet, that’s all he has ever had to pay, but HE STILL DOESN’T PAY IT!
I really do have sympathy for non-custodial parent’s who work and TRY to keep their support paid, but the system is just not making that easy for them, which it seems to be in your case…for the most part.
But I’ve seen too many men online posting things about how Child Support laws should be changed and whatnot, but the majority of these people just don’t want to pay and will do anything to get out of it.
I wish you luck and more importantly, I wish your children, including the one living with you, to get get the support they need and deserve.
we are sad, we are using kids as money chips. the family structure has gone to hell. our laws destroy the family structure not protect it. face it, some of us really can’t afford to have kids or can we!! quit having kids if you can’t afford them. kids in other parts of the world are actually starving!!!! quit complaining you ungrateful M— F%$^KERS more than 2 baby daddys…. poor family planning.
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I believe that you are all funny. You simply got caught in a trap. I probably owe over $600,000 in spousal and child support. My current yearly income is $10,000. We are all accidents of a system that grinds victims down.
My problem was I made a lot of money, about $180,000/ year. After taxes (the biggest chunk), child support ($38,000/ year) and spousal support ($36,000/year), and “add ons” (medical, life insurance, etc) I was left with a yearly income of $18,000, in a suburb of New York City. Insanity. Upheld by a New York Appellate Court. Lost my job, applied for modification, denied. So, here I sit with nothing, my ex gets nothing, my children get nothing.
Its all insane, and you just got caught.
John
The child support amounts are a nightmare. The custodial parents always say it’s “not enough” no matter how much they get. It is awful here in Canada too. A custodial parent who gets $850/month for 2 kids, thinks “that’s not enough”. But CS is only supposed to be 1/2, SHE is supposed to provide the other 1/2, so are they saying it takes 1700 after tax for 2 kids? What a joke. A single person would still need a house, heat, car etc.
The best way to look at the true financial “benefit” of the kids (of course beside that YOU get the kids!!) is to assume that the custodial parent loses custody. So now instead of getting 850, she pays 850. Right away the loss is 1700 to her household. She’ll no longer get the tax credits and benefits, that add up to at least another 400/month in Canada. Now she’ll STILL have to have a house for when they come visit, furnish it, provide a car big enough fo all (and pay for access costs). She’ll still have to contribute to medical and “extra” expenses. So right away her household income is -850 -850-400-150 (food, extras) = -2250/month after tax! But according to most custodial parents, kids are soooo expensive, and they’d have SUCH a higher lifestyle if the kids weren’t so expensive! (howmany times have we heard that).
The true financial “benefit” to the custodial parent was 2250/month, not 850. I wish custodial parents could AT lest admit that getting the kids and cash is a MUCH better deal, than losing the kids (full time) and paying a SIGNIFICANT amount for that priviledge!
http://www.petitiononline.com/7869ryt/petition.html
“Child” support is the slavery of the modern era. You are blinded to this by the love you bear your children, and the States are counting on that noble fatherly love. You should simply stop paying the State these ridiculous amounts. They receive millions in federal incentives, taken from taxpayers like you, for their “child” support policing/harassment efforts. The whole “child” support debacle will be seen by historians as a wretched shame and stain on this otherwise great nation. Not since slavery, also enshrined in law for its time, has such a shame existed. STOP paying the STATE “child” support. Support your children as their loving father in the traditional way, not by a paycheck deduction. It pains me to see our nation succumb to such an evil. All men, everywhere, should stop paying and start seeing their children. I hope that the next generation will restore the family and forgive us.
My father took his own life in 2004 after being driven into poverty and shame. For this, I will never seek a wife.
I am a woman but lets get real here, there is no use in destroying a man or woman’s life.My husband had joint custody. One child stay with him and another went with her mom.The Child Support was never changed and the judge accused him of quitting a good paying job to get out of child support. Their are several key points to this story…She should have been paying him because one child lived with him. She moved out of state and enrolled in CSE in that state without notifying the CSE in which the case started. Therefore two states are trying to collect and collect different amounts. Some how or another that we are trying to figure out, she went back and got back support for the child that lived with him. All these years he had paid the ordered amount which was set for both kids, so it was never reduced so what gives her the right to get back child support on a child that did not live with her when the amount for 2 children has already been paid? Judge around here must stay in a bad mood because she never wants to hear it and the answer is, “you owe it you’ve got to pay it”.HOW DO YOU GET SOMEONE TO LISTEN WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY A FORTUNE FOR A LAWYER? Can’t afford a lawyer because still paying the amount for 2 kids. One child is 24 and the other 27 and the interest just keeps piling up on money that is not owed. Can’t the courts realize they have made a mistake? Is it legal for her to have 2 cases open at the same time? The kids say don’t pay it dad because we never see any of it. She makes $35.00 per hour and he makes 12.00 per hour. Can anyone help us with these questions, we have no where to turn. Thanks for listening1 Good luck to you all!
Thank you for reading and replying, Hope ever thing workds out
The biggest problem is that most child support orders exceed cost of raising a child by a multiple of two or three (2-3 times) and the amount a father should be paying by a multiple of four or six (4-6 times). (The mothers should be required to pay half no matter how different her income is from the father.) States receive kickbacks in the form of federal subsidies for each dollar in support transferred from the father to the mother. This mechanism is CHILD TRAFFICKING and ABUSE and SLAVERY for fathers. Bradley Amendment to Titile IV-D of the Social Security Act prevents downward modification of any child support order. Child support is nothing but institutionalized racketeering and fraud. Shared parenting is the best alternative to child support but almost always ignored and anyway the mother’s hostile parent veto often pervents shared parenting. Therefore, she should be required to relinquish custody to the father in these common instances and forced to pay child support herself. Historically, fathers share parenting and support their children without imposing on the gov’t or the other parent in almost all instances. Things changed in 1970 when mothers began divorcing the fathers of their children enmasse for profit and to facilitate their adultery.
During the past forty years, approximately 1.1-million men have killed themselves in the US. At least 250,000 in response to divorce and imposition by the child support gastapo (Thomas Ball, for instance, who recently self-immolated on the courthouse steps of his small hometown in New Hampshire – 2011). In contrast only 250,000 women total have killed themselves in the US during the past forty years. None in response to divorce or problems with child support. What a tragedy. The number of men who have lost their lives as a result of an oppressive and tyrannical post feminist dystopian police state exceeds those lost in all the wars the US has fought throughout its history combined. I feel your pain, Rob Bump. I had tried to kill myself when the family law system snatched my children and held them hostage for ransom and would not let them see me again. Then it has threatened me with prison because I cannot afford the excessive child support orders. The system is truly Byzantine and brutal.
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MY neice’s ex does not support his two babies. He claims to everyone that he is the best dad in the whole wide world. He curses my neice everytime he calls her and “tells” her he is going to see the kids. He takes 2-3 weeks to even inquire how the kids are doing. He parties and supports his mother and step-father because he’s a drunkard. He has multiple payday loans in “non payment” status because he’s used my neice as a contact so the call everyday and leave mesages for him to “please call them back”, one even told my neice they were going to sue him, my neice siad that would be fine… LOL. My neice has not filed for support because he keeps tellling her that “next week” he’ll give her money for the kids. 1 and 1/2 years later and two babies he hasn’t provided. She depends on her loving family to help which they dont mind because they can. He posts everything of facebook, from rants, starting in August, about not being able to claim the kids on his tax return (shows it’s only about $$ for him), he posts all his personal business for all to see and of course his family backs him up. He never posts that he cusses her or that he hasn’t even bought a pack of diapers for either kid. He thinks they survive on milk alone. He fails to see his stupidty; for posting what has been printed, abusive calls have been recorded (we can do that in Texas); and that Tx allows for past child support to be paid. Intially he did buy one case of diapers, and some clothes from a second hand store, but courts will consider this a “gift”. He’s gonna be screwed here in a few months when they go to court hearing. But, since he’s a big believer in “karma” as he’s always tellling my neice, he’s about to really experience the affects of his beliefs. ROFLMAO!!!
While I would agree that the Child Support System needs changing. Not all districts operate the same. I work for CS and in our district we work really hard to make sure that the income of each parent is taken into account. We pay attention when the non-custodial parent is laid off to do a modification so that the support is lowered in order to assist them. This being said, it also stands to reason if you could not afford the first 2 children then you should have been more careful about having more.
Is there any legal way to stop the interest on arreages?
Thank you for your comment as I know of right now NO, But I do have a lawyer working on it. and will keep you informed
Thank you. Joe, I would appreciate. Any thing you can find out. I have an appt next month and I will let you know if we figure something out also.
i go back to court for “modification” this july. there was a claim that i was intercepting tax refund check, i did not get a refund check and have never got a refund check. i do get a statement from the federal goverment and my local goverment explaining why(as i did this year) and i have become aware that some laws have changed somewhat from 2010 and 2011 regarding tax filing status and payment modifications. everything was fine,have not missed any payments(electronic drafted by my request) and BAM ! now i call them “they” want more as the original payment is not enough. my son will be 17 this may and my daughter will be 16 in may as well.have not seen my son since he was 5 nor my daughter since 2. there is always more to the story and this is my first post. thanks for the blog post and will follow it. link for some local changes http://www.in.gov/apps/lsa/session/billwatch/billinfo?year=2011&request=getBill&docno=1427
Thanks for the comment and the link. I also do not get a tax refund so I do need to check into this, good luck and if you do not mind let us know how it goes. Joe